Israel’s war on Gaza is the deadliest conflict for journalists in recorded history. In an attack on Nasser Hospital in Gaza Monday, Israel killed five more journalists in addition to over a dozen others. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu claimed the hospital attack was a “tragic mishap,” but just hours later, Israeli forces killed a sixth journalist. “There is a pattern of targeting and killing journalists that lets us think that there is an intention,” says Francesca Albanese, U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory.
As countries prepare for the U.N. General Assembly, Albanese notes the complicity of Western states in the genocide in Gaza, particularly the United States. “There has been a tolerance of Israel’s impunity for decades,” says Albanese. “However, the United States is the single most important factor of crisis in the United Nations.”
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Human rights and press freedom groups are denouncing Israel’s attack on Nasser Hospital in Gaza Monday that killed at least 21 journalists — that killed at least 21 people, including five journalists. According to eyewitnesses, Israel carried out a double-tap strike on the hospital. In the initial strike, a drone hit Hussam al-Masri, a cameraman who worked for Reuters. Then another strike, minutes later, hit journalists and rescue workers who were responding to the initial strike.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu claimed the hospital attack was a, quote, “tragic mishap.” But just hours later, Israeli forces killed a sixth journalist, Hassan Douhan, a well-known editor at Al-Hayat Al-Jadida. He was killed when an Israeli tank shelled a tent sheltering displaced people in Khan Younis.
Over the past 23 months, Israel has barred all foreign journalists from reporting inside Gaza, while systematically killing Palestinian journalists. According to one count, Israel has killed least 245 journalists. On Monday, Thibaut Bruttin, the director general of Reporters Without Borders, denounced Israel’s attack on journalists.
THIBAUT BRUTTIN: When and where is it going to end? Are we going to let the Israel Defense Forces continue the repeated killing of journalists? There is international law. There are guarantees that should be granted to journalists covering conflicts. And none of that seems to be applying. So, we need to be very clear about the fact that none of the journalists that are allegedly terrorists are terrorists. They are professional journalists working for legacy professional media, like, for example, Reuters or, for example, AP.
AMY GOODMAN: In other news from Gaza, three more Palestinians have starved to death, bringing the total to at least 303.
We’re joined right now by Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory. She’s joining us from Tunis, Tunisia.
Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Francesca Albanese. Can you start off by responding to the killing of the, at this point, in the last day, six journalists, five of them in a double-tap strike on Nasser Hospital?
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Thank you, Amy. Yeah, of course.
Look, in a situation of conflicts, targeting or killing journalists is unlawful. Journalists, like doctors and medical personnel and rescues, all those who have been killed in this attack, are civilians, so killing them is unlawful. They are protected under international humanitarian law.
However, here, it’s not an isolated incident. Journalists have been killed in such high numbers. Some say 200 have been documented. Al Jazeera speaks of 270 journalists killed. So there is a pattern of targeting and killing journalists, that let us think that there is an intention behind it. There is a widespread and systematic attack against them, like there is a systematic and widespread attack against civilians. And this might qualify as also as a crime against humanity in and of itself.
However, however, I want to remind everyone that we are on the 688th day of the assault against Gaza, which an increasing consensus denounces as genocidal. And there is famine, and there is this complete destruction of landscapes in Gaza. So, the question is: What are member states waiting exactly to intervene and stop this carnage?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Francesca Albanese, you have said that there have to be response. You’ve called for sanctions against Israel. Could you talk about how those might work, especially, as you mentioned, the fact that state governments are not taking any action?
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Oh, absolutely. Look, I would like people to understand this in the broader context of international law. No later than last year, the International Court of Justice has confirmed that Israel’s presence in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem is unlawful, must be dismantled totally and unconditionally. And the General Assembly has also given Israel a very generous deadline of one year to do so, which will expire in a month from now. In the face of this, member states have an obligation not to aid and assist in any possible ways a state like Israel in maintaining the situation created by Israel’s unlawful presence. So, while it is abhorrent that they are not stopping Israel, this delay increases their level of responsibility, their violation of international law, and possibly their complicity with the crimes that Israel is committing.
This is why my recommendations are for member states who do not want to incur in this legal — in their legal responsibilities, and also out of humanity, to break the siege. Member states who have a port in the Mediterranean Sea must absolutely send their navies, under their national flag, with humanitarian aid and doctors, with food and baby formula, because 500,000 people, according to the United Nations, are close to — are really close to starvation. But also, as we see the Sumud Flotilla, so ordinary citizens jumping on boats and trying to do what member states are not doing, I feel that it’s totally immoral and irresponsible to let individuals like this take this risk, when it’s a state obligation to break the siege.
But also, it’s time to cut ties with Israel, to cut trade, because this is also what the ICJ has reminded member states they need to take all steps to prevent trade and investment relations that are assisting in the maintenance of Israel’s unlawful presence. And we must recall that while Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, it’s also advancing, as it was said in the beginning, annexation at an incredible, incredible speed. So there is no way out of this other than a firm, robust action from member states.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I wanted to ask you — the Trump administration, instead of heeding your calls as the special rapporteur, have instead imposed sanctions on you, supposedly claiming that your naming of dozens of companies that are profiting from the Israeli occupation and genocide in Gaza. And Secretary of State Marco Rubio said, quote, “Albanese’s campaign of political and economic warfare against the United States and Israel will no longer be tolerated.” Your response to these kinds of words from leaders of the United States?
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Well, first of all, as a non-American, but as someone who has lived in the United States, I wonder how American people understand this, because, of course, it’s a violation of the First Amendment, right? I mean, I’ve just done my job, which is a pro bono job. I’ve been requested by the United Nations to investigate and report on the most prominent violations of international law that occur in the occupied Palestinian territory. And I’ve simply stated facts, according due process to businesses, saying there is an economy of the occupation, and this is the reason why Israel has profited and has allowed private entities, arms manufacturers, even banks, pension funds, universities, really, to help and profit — to help it and profit from Israel’s maintenance of the unlawful occupation. Now, this occupation has also turned into genocidal over the past 688 days, and I’ve denounced it. I’ve said, “How come that Israelis were becoming — many Israelis were becoming poorer and poorer, and Israeli stocks exchange kept on going up?”
Because of that, I’ve been sanctioned, which is something unprecedented, that no states in 80 years of life of the United Nations have ever attempted, had ever dared, because it’s absolute — it’s a violation of international law, of the U.N. Charter, of the Convention on Privileges and Immunities. And still, the United Nations — the United States maintains a sanction, which are now entering the second month. It’s abominable. And this is the situation. But you understand, against a person who has just written a report, I have been called a threat to global economy. It’s clear that I’ve hit a nerve, but this is not the way to react to this.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to the last story that the Reuters cameraman Hussam al-Masri filmed before he was killed by Israel on Monday at Nasser Hospital. On Saturday, just two days before, al-Masri shot this interview with Hikmat Fojo, a Palestinian woman whose relatives were killed in another Israeli strike.
HIKMAT FOJO: [translated] While they were sleeping, they were hit by missiles. While they were sleeping, an entire family was lost. And he was praying. He was praying. He was praying. His children were gone. Two were martyred. They were born after 10 years of waiting. One was sleeping. And the woman’s hands and legs, but, God willing, it’s all right. God willing, it doesn’t matter. If my nephew’s hand remains amputated, it doesn’t matter, but may he stay alive, O Lord.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that was the — one of the last pieces of video that the Palestinian journalist, the Reuters journalist Hussam al-Masri filmed before he was killed Monday in that double-tap strike. He had — apparently was setting up a live stream at the fourth-floor balcony, which journalists used, when he was hit. So, now I want to go to Reuters reporter Steve Holland, who questioned President Trump about this in the Oval Office.
STEVE HOLLAND: If we could get your reaction, sir? The Israelis bombed a hospital in Gaza, that killed 20 people, including five journalists. Are you —
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: When did this happen?
STEVE HOLLAND: This happened overnight today.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I didn’t know that.
STEVE HOLLAND: Any reaction to this? Are you going to talk to Prime Minister —
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, I’m not happy about it. I don’t want to see it. At the same time, we have to end that whole nightmare. I’m the one that got the hostages out. I got them out, all of them.
AMY GOODMAN: That was President Trump. Francesca Albanese, can you talk about the responsibility of the United States? And tell us more about the mechanisms at the U.N., since it’s very clear they block any kind of action at the U.N. Security Council.
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Yeah, as I said, there are clear indication, clear instructions from International Court of Justice on how to deal with the situation. The only lawful thing that Israel can do in the occupied Palestinian territory is to withdraw, withdraw the troops, dismantle the settlements, stop exploiting Palestinian resources.
In the face of this, any aid, any support, any exchange of commerce, military intelligence and others from the United States or others is a breach of the obligation not to render aid and assistance in maintaining the situation. However, on top of this, there are proceedings for genocide pending before the International Court of Justice, which trigger an obligation to prevent, which, as a minimum, as the ICJ has said in the case of Nicaragua v. Germany, entails the ban on transfer of weapons to a country, to a state which is committing violations of international humanitarian law, meaning even war crimes. You know, we don’t even need to go and bother the Genocide Convention. So, yet again, another layer of responsibility of the United States.
And then there are proceedings against Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant for war crimes and crimes against humanity, including starvation. Because of this, even if the United States is not a party to the ICC, it should be respectful of international law, international criminal law. And instead of giving — of receiving the ICC-wanted Netanyahu as if he was really a war hero, as is being defined, the United States should facilitate justice and accountability. Instead, they are waging a war against the ICC itself, not just me. All the judges of the ICC have been sanctioned, and so the prosecutor of the court. So, this is the situation.
Of course, there are complicities on the side of this administration, and, in my opinion, even in the — on the previous one. But this is something that belongs to the American people. It’s the American people that need to, or the American — the American political landscape that needs to, take action on this.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Francesca Albanese, I wanted to ask you — in a few weeks, the U.N. — the annual meeting of the U.N. General Assembly will take place. Leaders from all over the world will come and give speeches to the U.N. General Assembly. Do you think this is a defining moment for the United Nations as an institution in its inability of the member states or the unwillingness of the member states to stop a genocide that the entire world has been witnessing now for —
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Yeah.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: — two years?
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Yeah, I will take the opportunity to also answer the other part of Amy’s question, which I dropped, but it’s — yeah, I think that it’s a — it’s an historical moment, the one we live in, and it’s a defining one. We will not get out of this genocide with the same pretense of innocence that we had when we entered. The crimes of Israel against the Palestinians were already 56-plus years old when the assault against Gaza on the terrible — after the terrible day that October 7 was — and there is no question about that. So, there have been a tolerance of Israel’s impunity for decades.
However, the United States is the single most important factor of crisis in the United Nations system at the moment, because the United Nations are clearly paralyzed in the face of a crisis which is political, legal and humanitarian, and the United States have contributed to that paralysis by also — for example, what are the mechanisms to impose sanctions or to dispose of coercive or noncoercive measures against Israel within the U.N. would be through the Security Council, and the United States have firmly and steadily sheltered Israel from most important instances of accountability. A rare exception is the 2016 Security Council resolution that recognized the illegality of the settlements under international law.
So, it’s a catch-22 situation. But at the same time, I want to remind everyone that the international community is constituted by 193 member states, and the other 191, that does not — are not part of the Gaza genocide as much as Israel in the United States, should do the utmost not only to stop the genocide, but also to salvage what remains of the multilateral system, because so far it has protected — I wouldn’t say all of us, but most of us, especially in the West. And it seems that we are really giving it for granted. But we will miss human rights very much when we don’t have them anymore.
AMY GOODMAN: Francesca Albanese, the International Criminal Court has said it deplores new U.S. sanctions on its judges and prosecutors. Last week, the U.S. State Department announced new sanctions on two judges and two prosecutors in the ICC for engaging in efforts to prosecute U.S. and Israeli citizens. The ICC statement said, “These sanctions are a flagrant attack against the independence of an impartial judicial institution which operates under the mandate from 125 States Parties from all regions. They constitute also an affront against the Court’s States Parties, the rules-based international order and, above all, millions of innocent victims across the world.” I’m wondering if you can comment on this latest development, the sanctions against the ICC prosecutors and judges, and also your own situation. You are the U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory, and the U.S. has sanctioned you. And if you can talk exactly about what that means?
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Look, the sanctions are very heavy and, frankly, an awful, awful instrument, when targeting, when directed at people whose job and whose efforts are in the — in the pursuit of justice and accountability. So, look at the absurdity of using an instrument, which is meant to protect U.S., U.S. interests and U.S. citizens, being used to punish people who are trying to stop and make account — make people responsible for crimes accountable. Where is the harm to the U.S. citizens? What is harmed — and this is why I often say these sanctions are a sign of fragility of those who use it — who use them. I mean, they are — what’s the harm that is done to the American interest, other than to the illegality that is denounced?
Yes, the special rapporteur has put on notice 48 businesses. And what? Why didn’t they defend themselves? Why didn’t they interact with me, most of them, surely the American companies? Why did they went to complain to the American administration, who put me on notice not to continue this investigation already made? Again, look, I come from a place which has been plagued by Mafia-style logics, techniques, and I’m fully familiar with this way of behaving. And this kind of threats win only if they meet fear. But the people, united, must resist this. And this is why I’m not going to step back, and I’m not going to stop my work.
AMY GOODMAN: And I wanted to ask a final question about the West Bank. As we went air, I think something like 24 people have been injured in Ramallah in an Israeli military raid. This is not Gaza. This is Ramallah. At the same time, you have the far-right ministers talking about starting to annex the West Bank this week. What does this mean?
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: And what role does the U.N. have in this?
FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Yes, two things. First, when we say this is not Gaza, last week, the Israeli newspaper +972/Local Call issued a report based on a leaked document by the Israeli army, which admitted that only one of six of the people killed in Gaza were Hamas combatants. And I want to — I want to underscore that Israel’s definition of “combatant” is much broader than what is, in fact, afforded by international law. So, it confirms and actually aggravates the accusations of the U.N., independent experts and others that the death toll has steadily been 70 — at least 70% women and children, and therefore civilians. So, they are saying that, in fact, 80%-plus of the death toll in Gaza is made of civilians.
The situation is not different from the West Bank, where Israel is advancing its ethnic cleansing agenda through annexation. This is not new. In February 2023, the coalition government passed an agreement that basically transferred to Bezalel Smotrich, so the minister of finance, control over large swathes of the West Bank. This was yet another act of annexation, but formalizing what Israel has been doing for 57 years, creating settlements, which are war crime, in occupied territories for Israeli Jews only that were on — were on stolen land and were resulting in forcibly — dispossession and forcible displacement of Palestinians. Of course, today, this has reached abysmal proportion, because there is — there is even that veneer of respect of international humanitarian law has gone. There are settlers and soldiers ravaging the West Bank, and the Jordan Valley is unprotected, other than from by a few Israeli activists who go there night and day and try to protect shepherds and pastoralist communities.
But, look, the situation is abominable, abominable. And now the state of Palestine has requested an intervention from the international community. Some presidents, like some authorities, like the Irish president, has called for a military intervention. And I understand that everything must pass up, in accordance with international law, through the Security Council. And at the same time, because Israel has no sovereignty whatsoever over Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, it’s about time that a protection — the deployment of a protection presence is considered, because there is no other way to stop what Israel is doing.
AMY GOODMAN: Francesca Albanese, we want to thank you for being with us, U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory. We were hoping to reach a doctor at Nasser Hospital, but could not reach him today.
Coming up, we go to Chicago as local and state officials push back against President Trump’s threat to send in the National Guard. We’ll also look at Trump’s new executive orders ending so-called cashless bail. Stay with us.
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AMY GOODMAN: The late folk singer-songwriter Michael Hurley performing “What’s Buggin’ You Baby?” at our Democracy Now! studio.
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